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#1 Guest(old)

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Posted 23 November 2002 - 12:10 PM

Sure could use a hand. Is there a method to offer a free trial period without going further. I would like to offer a free trial period only. Then have the client decide to select one of three subscription plan alternatives. With a free subscription offer ended, I hope to releave the client of having to cancel payment or use an unsubscribe button. A free trial period, period. They then will have the option to choose a pay subscription. If this is a little wordy, sorry. Thanks in advance for any guidence.
Jim
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#2 paypal_pb

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Posted 25 November 2002 - 11:20 AM

This isn't possible currently. I think most users are familiar with needing to cancel a subscription to avoid charges. This is even more comfortable with PayPal since the subscriber can cancel on their own at the PayPal site.

Patrick Breitenbach
PayPal, Inc.
Dev Net: https://www.paypal.com/pdn

#3 e4networks

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Posted 08 December 2002 - 02:32 PM

I agree in principle, but in practice I am amazed at how many of my subscribers forget to cancel before the end of the trial, then demand a refund after they get charged for the first installment. This is a real pain as all refunds have to be done manually, and you can't argue with them because it is a digital product, and I could get charged a $10 chargeback penalty by Paypal if I don't refund and it is only a $5 charge! that could kill me!

So I would vote for either a way to do free trials and a proactive pay now for the client, or some way for my server to automate refunds along the lines of IPN in the reverse direction if you get what I mean.

Jim Morris, e4 Networks

#4 DaveC

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Posted 09 December 2002 - 04:18 AM

If I were you, I would modify your terms and conditions to put the onus on them. After all, it is they that forgot. You should not be responsible for their forgetfulness.

You could also send a reminder email before the expiry of the trial.

I wouldn't have thought paypal would do a chargeback without doing some investigations first. If you can prove that you have acted in good faith, then I think paypal should honour the payment and say "tough" to the the customer.

Web development - http://www.revilloc.com

#5 e4networks

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Posted 09 December 2002 - 10:12 PM

My terms do specify that refunds are at my discretion.
However there is nothing stopping them going to their credit card company and saying it was not authorized, they always give the customer the benefit of the doubt and do a charge back.

I checked with Paypal, and for digital goods you are not covered by the seller protection, so they will charge a $10 chargeback, covering their costs of the chargeback.

My policy is now to always refund if requested.

Jim Morris, e4 Networks

#6 DaveC

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Posted 10 December 2002 - 02:42 AM

The CC company have to do an investigation before doing a charge back.

I would still put the onus on them. If you can prove that you have acted in good faith, then you are perfectly entitled to that money. You may not be able to prove if they have had any further use from your product, but if you can, that will also be in your favour.

It is their responsibility. You just need to prove to the CC company or Paypal.

Perhaps a paypal representative can help on this specific subject. I would be interested to hear the definitive answer as well. Perhaps I need to record more than the transaction information. (Mind you, I am not using subscriptions at the moment, so it probably doesn't yet affect me).

Web development - http://www.revilloc.com

#7 e4networks

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Posted 10 December 2002 - 10:00 PM

I did get a definitive answer from Paypal support on this one, they suggested I issue a refund in that case otherwise I may be liable for a chargeback.

As I understand it the CC company nearly always takes the credit card holders work for it, especially if it is an online transaction, so we loose in this case.

Paypal also have an exception in their policy with regards to "virtual" goods, ie goods which you do not physically ship, it is not covered. Check their terms and conditions if you really want to scare yourself :)

Jim Morris, e4 Networks LLC http://www.e4net.com

#8 paypal_pb

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Posted 11 December 2002 - 01:18 AM

Unfortunately it is difficult for merchants (PayPal included) to fight "card not present" transactions.

Fortunately 1) about half of PayPal transactions are non-credit card transactions and 2) excessive chargebacking is grounds for account restriction.

You will likely be better off refunding the fraction of payments where customers "forgot" to cancel rather than having the customer sign up again following a trial period.

Patrick Breitenbach
PayPal, Inc.
Dev Net: https://www.paypal.com/pdn




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